calvary chapel costa mesa

This is some correspondence between myself and the assistant Pastor of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.I don't think he saw it coming. Judge for yourself..

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Lawson" <lawmankjv@yahoo.com>To: <info@twft.com>Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 7:56 AMSubject: godsPastor Chuck,During the evening radio show, a caller asked who the gods of Psalm 82:6 referred. Your answer has left me confused. You referenced exodus saying the gods were actually judges (men) over the people. I can't find any passage in the book that reveals this idea. It appears the context of the use of the word gods throughout exodus is physical literal gods. If you would please explain your position further and please explain why you depart from the English.thank you for your time in this matter. Jeremy


Carl Westerlund wrote:Jeremy, This verse is usually questioned, because of Jesus quote in John 10:34.John 10:30 I and my Father are one. John 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? In Psalm 82 we find God’s judgment against the evil Israelite judges. The judges were called “gods” because they pronounced life and death judgments against people. But they became corrupt and unjust in their dealings. In verse 6, Asaph, speaking of these unjust human judges, said: “I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler.” Asaph is clearly speaking in irony. He is saying in effect: “I have called you ‘gods,’ but in fact you will die like the men you really are.” When Jesus alluded to this psalmj in John 10, He was saying that what the Israelite judges were called in irony and in judgment, He is in reality. Psa. 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Psa. 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Psa. 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. Psa. 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. Psa. 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. Psa. 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.Carl Westerlund assistant pastor, CCCM


Mr. Westerlund,
Your answer seems on the surface to make sense, but I can't find anywhere in the Bible where the word "gods" refers to men. Every time it is used the context is literal gods or idols. As a matter of fact "gods" and "judges" are two different beings! (Judges 2:17)
In reference to John 10:34, Jesus is not calling the Jews that were present at the time "gods". He was making a point that the "gods" of Psalm 82 were not accused of blasphemy for claiming to be the sons of God. And now, the "God of gods" was in their midst and they wanted to stone him for claiming to be The Son of God. The context of Psalm 82 historically appears to be the events leading up to the flood in the days of Noah(Gen 6:4).Also, notice verse 5 where the "foundations of the earth are out of course". While the doctrinal footing appears to be the 2nd Coming of Christ( notice verse 2 "Selah",and verse 8 "inherit all nations"reference to the millennium).
As for the "gods" dying like men, this reveals that the "gods" are not men,but something else!(Jude 6,7). He would not tell men that you will die like men.All men die like men!
In conclusion, these "gods" are obviously fallen angels. Also called "sons of God" in Job 1:6 and Gen 6:4, who left there "first estate" (Jude 6,7) and became flesh or "strange flesh".

Hope to hear from you soon,
Jeremy Psalm 12:6,7

what saith the scriptures

WHAT SAITH THE SCRIPTURES

Have you ever noticed how stupid we "Christians" look when we are challenged theologically? I believe that biblical ignorance is the culprit. We need to study the Bible(preferably a perfect Bible) for ourselves, instead of letting some moron behind a pulpit chat us up every Sunday (Rom 16:17-18). We need to constantly compare what people say about the Scriptures. Do you realize an entire religion was born and is sustained through Biblical ignorance? Let's examine this religion and figure out where they went wrong.

First of all their foundational footing rests on this one verse: Matt. 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". A careful study of the Scriptures(in a perfect Bible) will reveal the truth.

This religion claims that the verse in question gives Peter the authority over the christian church as we know it today and that he was the first pope. This could not be farther from the truth.First of all, the verse is not even talking about a christian church.

Look at verse 19. It mentions to the "kingdom of heaven". This "kingdom" . This kingdom is a Jewish kingdom and will be established at the second coming , because Israel rejected Christ(Matt. 23:37-39). If Israel would have accepted Christ the "kingdom of heaven" would have been established at that very moment. Remember this conversation takes place prior to the death of Jesus. The context of this verse is still old testament. Notice that Peter is the apostle to the Jews( Ga 2:7). This church could be a Jewish church in the tribulation (act7:38) or possibly a Jewish church in the millennium in which Peter will be in charge. But to claim apostolic succession from this one questionable verse is crazy! This is just another example of some man made religion perverting the word of God.

ANSWERS

WHO IS LEVIATHAN?

Job 41:1 speaks of a creature that seems unreal. He is a fierce monster, with scales. He can breath fire. No man can match his strength. And no weapon can harm him. Who is Leviathan?

Well, if we use the "standard" method of studying the Bible, we will find some pretty silly answers. Take STRONG'S CONCORDANCE for instance lists 3 other references for leviathan. They are: Ps 74:14 Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

Ps 104:26 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.

Isa 27:1 ¶ In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea. Now these verses are the only verses in the Bible that use the word "leviathan". I can gather from these verses that he lives in the sea and is like a "serpent" and called the "dragon in the sea" If we use the mainstream standard of studying this is all you get. You would assume that leviathan is some giant sea creature that torments ships. This unfortunately, is where all the "scholars" stop. I have seen some commentaries say Leviathan is a hippo! Where is that verse?

Well, when you want to know God's answer, you can usually discard the "scholars", for they are as blind as a bat when it comes to the scriptures! God wants you to find the answer for yourself. Don"t let some moron do your thinking for you. Get in the "book" and study to shew thyself approved! Did you notice in the Isaiah reference God used the words "crooked serpent"and "dragon"( is it coming to you yet?) Look over in revelation 12:9. It says" And the great DRAGON was cast out, that old SERPENT, called the DEVIL, and SATAN, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." You see? See how God works? He talks to us through His Word. That was a blessing. I got goosebumps just writing the post. I hope it was a blessing for you to see how easy the Bible is to understand.

LEVIATHAN IS SATAN!

WHICH MUSIC

GODLY MUSIC

What kind of music do you listen to at home and at church? I know this is a touchy subject because, we all love our music. But, have you ever really thought about the music you expose yourself to on a daily basis?

There are two kinds of music , GODLY and UNGODLY. We are going to take a look (biblically) at how to tell the difference.

Php 3:3 says" For we are the circumcision, which worship God IN THE SPIRIT, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. " All through the Bible we are told not to indulge the flesh. Paul says: "So then they that are in the flesh CANNOT please God." Did you see what he said? You CANNOT please God in the flesh. No "ifs" "ands" or "buts". You CANNOT please God in the flesh!!! I don't care how sincere you are about what you do. If you are IN THE FLESH, you CANNOT please God. Do you realize what Paul is saying? Think about it for a moment. When is the last time you heard your Preacher quote that verse? Most Preachers would have to throw out their entire music program if they Preached that verse!!! Isn't it funny how the Bible (with one verse) can eliminate literally ALL "contemporary christian music"?

The Bible is very clear concerning how we are to sing. Eph 5:19 says: "Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and SPIRITUAL songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;..." and Col 3:16 says:" Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and SPIRITUAL songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord." Is the music you listen to SPIRITUAL? Does it glorify God? Or does it just make you (your flesh) feel good. These are honest questions we should be asking ourselves or our Pastors.

I should point out that music and lyrics are not one in the same. For example, a song can have godly lyrics, but ungodly music. Or, a song can have godly music, but ungodly lyrics.

In order to please God, both must be godly. Lu 5:37 says: "And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish. Lu 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved."

If we as Christians would just be honest with God, we would be able to see our faults. 2Co 13:5 says: " Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? " We need to constantly examine whether we are pleasing God or ourselves. Most of the time you will find the latter to be true. I hope this will help.

WHICH BIBLE

FINAL AUTHORITY
Are you a "bible believer"? Do you really believe what the Bible says? Many people say it , but don't really mean it at all. The Bible has become a frequently quoted but seldomly read book. I get so tired of people (mostly women) saying "the bible says..." when it doesn't or "Jesus said..." when he didn't. Most of the time these people are misquoting the Bible to justify their sin. My favorite misquote is (with a sixth grade voice) " judge not lest ye be judged" These are quotes of people who have made themselves their own final authority. THE BIBLE IS THE FINAL AUTHORITY ON ALL MATTERS OF FAITH AND PRACTICE.
Every sport has a rule book. One rule book! That BOOK is the FINAL AUTHORITY. Imagine if NASCAR had no rules!!! You would have drivers going off in all directions. It sounds a great deal like main stream Christianity to me. We have "churches" going off in all directions! The reason for this is very simple. The Bible is not their FINAL AUTHORITY.
Now when I say "Bible" I mean ONE BOOK. Not multiple books. 1Co 14:33 says: "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints". Many "churches" are using multiple versions of the Bible. In many circumstances, these new versions differ from each other. Ps 12:6 says "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever". Do you see that? This means exactly what it says. God, has preserved his word forever. Then, it is logical to think that I can get a copy of it in my hands. Why are there so many "bibles" that say so many different things. The NIV removes 16 entire verses that are in my KJV. Why is that? Is the KJV wrong to have included these verses? Are these verses irrelevant? These are questions you should be asking.
Php 2:2 says: "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the SAME LOVE, being of ONE ACCORD, of ONE MIND". How can this be obeyed if there are "bibles" that say different things. If you are a "Bible Believer" and say that the "Bible is your FINAL AUTHORITY" which BIBLE do you mean? I challenge you to pray for guidance and to seek the truth. In closing, I hope you find GOD'S FINAL AUTHORITY.

STUDY

UNLOCKING A SEALED BOOK

Interpretation, Context, and Doctrine (rightly dividing the Word) are the core fundamentals for Bible study. If you apply these methods, you already know more Bible than 95% of Americans. Probably more than 85% of all pastors in America.These are the KEYS to UNLOCKING A SEALED BOOK.

1Co 2:14 says" But the NATURAL MAN receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are FOOLISHNESS unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." Ever try talking to unsaved people about Bible subjects? They just don't seem to get it, do they? Well, that's because they think it is "foolishness" as 1Co 2:14 says. I've had unsaved men and woman look me right in my face and laugh hysterically when trying to explain creation, or the trinity. Don't bother, it is "foolishness unto him". This is why I DO NOT advocate inviting unsaved people to church, unless there is a special, or some other event where the Gospel will be preached. Get them saved, then invite them to church. Church is for Christians! There is not one single church in the Bible that is a congregation of unbelievers.In Galatians, the unbelievers in the church were referred to as "LEAVEN", and a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump! Being "born again" is one key to unlocking the Bible.

1Pe 5:5 says" Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with HUMILITY: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the HUMBLE." God wants us to be humble. A humble man always seeks the truth. A humble man will hearken to criticism and not get angry. God cannot and will not work with the prideful man. Notice how He "RESISTETH THE PROUD". All through the Bible, God is constantly HUMBLING people, the hard way. A WISE OLD MAN ONCE SAID " IT IS BETTER TO EAT HUMBLE PIE ONE BITE AT A TIME, RATHER THAN ALL AT ONCE SHOVED IN YOUR FACE". There is a great deal of wisdom in that quote! God wants us to HUMBLE ourselves. 2Ch 7:14 says" If my people, which are called by my name, shall HUMBLE themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; THEN will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." Did you see that the promise was conditional upon their HUMILITY. What a country America could be again if she would just HUMBLE herself. Humbling yourself is one key to unlocking the Bible.

1Ch 28:9 says" And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a WILLING mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever." Finally, God wants you to be WILLING. I cant find one example in the Bible where God forced a man to do anything against his own WILL. You (saved or unsaved) have ALWAYS had a free WILL. If you are not WILLING to obey the scripture, then don't even pick the Book up! We would not have SALVATION if it were not for Jesus being WILLING to die on the cross. God is always looking for a WILLING man. Being willing is one key to unlocking the Bible.

I hope this answers some question you may have.

RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD

DOCTRINE

When studying the Bible, we are to use Godly methods. 1 Cor 2:13 says " Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual" The correct method for studying the Bible is to compare Scripture with Scripture. The Bible is to be your "FINAL AUTHORITY". The problem today and in the past with the "scholars" is that, generally speaking, most of them do not do their own research. They usually just quote men that they believe to be correct. This is a tragedy in main stream churches today. You've got some pastor quoting the Strong's Concordance, or the Greek, or the Hebrew, or some idiot that makes a living off of so called christian books. The whole while ignoring what the Bible says on a subject. Most that teach this way are advocates for the new versions. The "CHURCH" has suffered greatly from this perverted way of studying.

2 Tim 2:15 says " Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (This verse is changed in every Bible since the KJV. They all change or remove the word "study".) We see from this verse, that the Bible must be RIGHTLY DIVIDED. How do we do this? Well, 2Tim3:16 says "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" Did you see that? The Bible said that the priority of the scripture was 1 DOCTRINE,2 REPROOF,3 CORRECTION,4 INSTRUCTION. Does your pastor teach in this order? Do you seek truth from the Bible with these priorities in mind? If we want to please God we must use God's methods. There are no points for originality at the JUDGEMENT SEAT OF CHRIST. So, in order to RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH we must know where these divisions rest. Now the Bible divides humanity into 3 classes: JEWS, GENTILES, and THE CHURCH OF GOD (1 Cor 10:32). When dividing scripture you must first decide through the context of the verse, to whom it applies. If you use this method when studying it can help to understand so called "problem text." Look at James 1:1, it is written to THE TWELVE TRIBES WHICH ARE SCATTERED ABROAD. These 12 tribes are definitely JEWS. Therefore it would be extremely dangerous for a christian (church of God) to apply doctrine from James to himself.

All books in the Bible can be looked at in this light. I hope this helps you with your studies.

Bible technique

CONTEXT

When studying the Bible, context is everything. You use context to determined 1. Who wrote the passage. 2. To whom the passage applies. 3. What period of time the passage applies to. This is where most "christians" drop the ball.

Knowing the context of a passage is very simple. Paul's writings for instance, were letters(epistles). Paul wrote letters to certain people and churches. When you read a passage of scripture you need to know who is dong the talking and who is he talking to. For example, when you get the mail you look at the envelope and determine who it is to. Then, you look to see who it is from. If it is addressed to you then you know it is for you. If it is not your name, then, you do not open the letter. If you apply this technique throughout the Bible you will never go wrong.

Let's look at a few examples:

Romans. Who is doing the talking? Rom. 1:1 Paul. Who's he talking to? Rom. 1:7 "all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints." He is talking to born again christians in Rome! There location is not important. Who they are is what is important. Romans is safe ground for a christian. You can apply this letter to you.

Hebrews.Who's doing the talking? Heb. 1:2 a hebrew, key word is "us" referring to hebrews. Who's he taking to? Title of the letter is HEBREWS. This is not safe ground for a christian. Be very cautious of applying this letter to christians.

This technique can be applied to individual verses as well as books in the Bible. Take Gal. 5:4 it says " Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." Who's doing the talking? Gal. 1:1 Paul. Who's he talking to? Gal. 1:2 Christians. But in Gal. 5:4 Paul throws in a statement to unsaved people! Notice, it says "...whosoever of you are justified by the law..." Last time I checked christians are justified by "FAITH" (Rom. 3:28), not the law. Therefore, Gal. 5:4 cannot possibly be applied to a born again christian.

I hope this helps to answers some question you might have about certain passages in the Bible.

Bible sense

INTERPRETATION

This is the word for today. It is a simple word made complex by most men, particularly preachers and scholars. In order to know what the Bible says on a given subject you must first consult the Bible.Now, to get a correct Bible interpretation we must use correct Bible methods. The Bible is clear that the Scripture is of no private interpretation (2 peter 1:20). The Holy Ghost is the interpreter of scripture (2 peter 1:21). It is very easy to figure out how the Holy Ghost interprets a verse of Scripture. The Bible says what it means and means what is says!

There are 4 ways to mess up a Biblical interpretation:

1. Add a word.

2. Subtract a word.

3. Change a word.

4. Take a word or verse out of context.

All heresy is achieved by doing any of the 4 things. Yes, that means there are a great deal of heretics in the world. i.e Jehovah's Witness, Church of Christ, Pentecostal, Assembly of God, Lutheran,CATHOLIC, Mormon, Southern Baptist, Mennonite, most Baptist, Christian Reform, Unitarian, and the list goes on....

Now if you are in one of these "churches" that does not mean you are a heretic. You are just being deceived by one. Do you self a favor read God's Book for yourself.

opening post

Let me start by saying : I do not claim to know everything about the Bible. But, I will diligently search the the scripture for an answer to any questions you may have. That being said, please, if you have questions ask. I will check back often.